Fancy that
Braves bench Focus on the Family
Normally, of course, I would post Braves news at Braves Journal, but things there get really nasty when politics gets involved and I'd rather not have to deal with it. But I have to comment on this. Apparently, the team has something they call "faith days", which are pretty much what they sound like. FotF was a part of the first one but no longer will be invited.
Commitment to gay rights by current owners Time Warner? Maybe. More likely, though, it's because FotF is part of a coalition that opposes the team's acquisition by Liberty Media on the grounds that that company is a "pornographer" because it owns On Demand, the company that distributes movies (most of which aren't porn) to hotel rooms.
Okay, I'm cynical.
posted by Mac @ 8/04/2006 10:43:00 AM
29 comments
29 Comments:
Why be cynical?
First of all, even as an evangelical Christian, I don't think there's any reason to have "Faith Days" at Turner Field. Aside from ecumenism, which is getting really out of hand, it's a baseball game. I'm not one of the "separation of church and state" people (does that separation even exist in the constitution?), but I'll go to church to worship God and receive Biblical instruction, and I'll go to a baseball game to enjoy Braves baseball. Why are they mixing the two?
Second, like I asked up there, why be cynical? Focus on the Family is trying to keep America's team that has a ballpark basically made for families and players that are more or less from the area from being sold to basically pornographers. Whether or not their sales are 100% pornography or 49%, they're still putting porn in hotels, where kids potentially have access to it. If they're willing to deal sleezy porn movies to people in hotels just to make a buck, how do you think they're gonna treat the Braves? It sounds like another corporate ownership fixated more on the bottom line than the won-loss record.
It's less than one percent, probably. They're distributors of movies, some of which are soft-core porn. They distribute less porn than Time Warner does through HBO and Cinemax.
Funny how "Faith days" only means the Christian faith.
I'm not going to get into a flame war here, but I will say that Dr. James "dogbeater" Dobson is a toolbag, for reasons that have very little to do with his faith.
I'm not a Christian, so I don't want to try to speak for the target audience ...
But if it were me they were pitching these faith nights to, I'd be offended. You want me to come to your park, spend $20 for a seat $4.50 for a hot dog $3.50 for a coke, a ten spot for parking, all for the greater good of god? Huh? Exploiting a committment to religion to fill empty seets at the Ted seems closer to blasphemy than to anything else.
Rob,
I'm not going to attempt to give you a civics lesson, but I promise you that there's a separation of church & state. In my view, any attempts to erode that makes this country less great.
Mac,
I have no problem having the Braves reach out to whichever group they chose (religious, gay, corporate, don't care). Just like any other ballclub, they're trying to bring in more fans. Here in NY, the Mets have a week of ethnic-oriented nights (Latin night, Irish night, Italian night, etc.) and nobody has a problem with it.
The South is obviously a different kind of market, one with more Sunday church goers. That kind of promotion would have no bearing on whether or not I went to the game. Fact is, I'd imagine the beer lines would be quicker.
Having a private corporation reach out to religious people doesn't bother me a bit. It's not like having religious activities in public schools---if Christians offend you, then you don't have to go to the game. It's not public policy.
One more thing about softcore porn in hotel rooms. There's this thing: It's called free will. It's kind of amazing when you realize that you're allowed to have it.
To wit: You're allowed to avoid hotels that you wish. You don't have to give money to corporations or businesses you disagree with, whether it's Wal-Mart or Disney.
Also, when you check into a hotel, you can have that "on-demand" station rendered inoperable if you like (just like the chip in the cable box that prevents the 12-year-old from watching Playboy Channel). Your children won't have access to it. So, in the real world, that argument doesn't wash.
But Christians can protest all they like. I don't care. They're allowed. Stay out of my life & I'll stay out of yours. Promise.
Less than one percent? There's no way that's correct. Isn't the company On Demand? That has wayyyy more than 1% porn. Plus, HBO and Cinemax don't start their movies til 11:30 or so; On Demand is... on demand 24/7.
As for the "Faith Days" being only the Christian faith, I suppose that's because the south, especially Georgia (they said there were 5,000 churches within 75 miles of Atlanta), is predominantly Christian. But that's where I agree you shouldn't have "Faith Days" at a baseball game. That's why we have churches, Christian fellowship coffee houses/gyms/etc., and private Christian high schools. That's where Christians can be around other Christians. Why bring it into Turner Field?
No Rob, the Company is Liberty Media. They distribute many, many things other than On Demand. They have a significant (controling?) interest in QVC and Starz. It holds a 20% stake in Rupurt Murdoch's News Corporation. You want cheap travel tickets and use Expedia? You are dealing with Liberty. The soft core porn is a tiny fraction of Liberty's empire.
(does that separation even exist in the constitution?)
That exact phrasing isn't in the Constitution, but comes from a letter from Thomas Jefferson. The Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause in the First Amendment pretty much say that the Government can't establish a national religion or prohibit the free exercise of any religion. Other than that, you've got some Supreme Court rulings and a broad interpretation of the 14th Amendment. Not much really.
Anyway, I support the Braves right to have Faith Days or any other types of days they want, as they certainly are not a government entity. They need customers and Christians have lots of money to throw around. The sudden exclusion of FotF is strange, but I guess they can invite whomever they want.
And On Demand involves actually spending money to see the wondrous works of art they provide. Once you've subscribed to Cinemax, their late-night offerings are available with no further investment.
Who Owns What: Liberty Media
Liberty owns three percent of Motorola. You ever use a Mac, you're dealing with Liberty.
In addition to their stakes in TW and NewsCorp, they have shares in Viacom and Universal. You can't watch TV without dealing with Liberty.
They own 20 percent of Sprint. They have tons of cable channels. On Demand is a fragment of a huge company.
I know the company is Liberty Media. Instead of company, I probably should have put "service" in referring to On Demand. Aside from their other assets, they still compose a lot of their earnings from pornography. However, I didn't know they also ran/owned the other things you mentioned. That does change things, I'm afraid. At the end of the day, the Atlanta Braves, a team geared towards families with all the family content in their stadium, local talent, etc., are trying to be sold to yet another corporate ownership who cares less about signing a big-name free agent and more about filling their pockets, AND they make a lot of that money they will use to buy the Braves from selling porn. That's the bottomline. Ububba, you're right. I can protest, and unfortunately, that's about all I can do.
As for separation of church and state, those little blips mentioned by Robert are the only things that I have ever heard about the issue. It seems also that these provisions were made to protect religion from the government, not the other way around like it's being played up today. I believe the fundament fear was something like King Henry starting the Anglican church because of the divorce issue ever happening again.
What it boils down to is that I see pornography is being totally abominable and disgusting, so of course I don't want the Braves being bought with porn money, no matter how small it may be. Pornography ruins marriages, teenagers, young adult girls, and yet no one speaks out against it. It must be "free will", though, right Ububba? When it's all over TV, billboards, the internet, you're constantly confronted by it and only the strongest "free will" can overcome it. Until pornography is deemed bad, then the sale to Liberty Media won't be seen with any disdain. The Braves are being bought with porn money, and that's where I draw the line. My brother works at a porn shop, and I won't accept any money he gives me because I know where it comes from: the corrupting of lives.
The Braves have already been bought with "porn" money, Rob. You think all AOL users do is chats and email? Porn was certainly more important to AOL than it has ever been to Liberty Media. You think Cinemax would have the market penetration (no pun intended, I swear) it has without "After Dark" or whatever it's called?
Not sure the "they are no worse then our current owners" argument is a winner. Rob's got to be hoping that this thing falls to Blank and his Home Depot money which could happen if Liberty goes away.
I certainly respects Rob's take on pornography. I don't 100% agree with it (I would have more of a problem with a beer company honestly) but it's great that some people still care about right and wrong.
Rob,
The same free will that prevents you from consorting with those that you consider pornographers is the same free will that I exercise every day on any number of issues.
In my view, life is about choices, some you make & some you don't. Ultimately, it's about you, who you are, what you want to be & how you wanna live your life.
The choices you make determine how your life goes. Pornography exists & it doesn't cause a blip of difference in my life because I don't let it. That's my free will to ignore it. But it also doesn't bother me that people make money from it any more than it bothers me that religious organizations make plenty of cash. For those who participate, it's on them, as they say.
And BTW, I know some folks who've told me that pornography has actually helped their marriage. So who am I to judge? I won't cast that stone.
Along the lines of what ububba said about porn helping people's marriage, I know plenty of women who find porn liberating and enjoy it as much as men. My significant other and I have gone to strip clubs with groups of friends, male and female, and it is always a blast. Much more fun than going with just dudes.
The human form is one of the most beautiful things on the planet (most of the time) and I refuse to find it disgusting. Of course, anyone else is free to have their own opinion, as long as they don't try to invalidate my right to mine.
Also, there are plenty of Jews, Muslims, Pastafarians, Bhuddists, Hindus, etc down here in the southland. Not the majority, of course, but I did want to make sure that they are counted as being among the faithful.
And that's me above as Anonymous.
urlhix,
Is a Pastafarian like a Trustafarian?
ububba,
Heh, I'm sure you can find plenty of Pastafarians at hippie music festivals. Basically, it is a new "religon" that worships the FSM, or flying spaghetti monster.
wiki link,
Not quite as fun as the Church of the Subgenius, but still fun. The promise of a beer volcano in the afterlife is almost too hard to resist.
Ra-men.
Right, I read about that. Kinda like George Carlin's Church of Joe Pesci.
ububba,
Haven't heard about that one, off to Google it now....
BTW, I was telling my s.o. about the discussion here and she reminded me that we lost to the Marlins 6-1 on Faith Day. Hmmm.......
Carlin had another bit about the Frisbee Church or Frisbeetarianism or something of that order, too.
As an aside, if it weren't for George Carlin's "Class Clown" album, which I discovered when I was about 11, I never would've made it through my 13 years of Catholic School with a modicum of sanity.
second bass here. Just wanted to comment on this one:
"But if it were me they were pitching these faith nights to, I'd be offended. You want me to come to your park, spend $20 for a seat $4.50 for a hot dog $3.50 for a coke, a ten spot for parking, all for the greater good of god? "
Actually, the stadium was emptied after the game and fans could then re-enter the stadium with a ticket that was purchased seperate from the ballgame ticket ($10 I think).
actually, the gov't is protected from religion, to some extent.
Constitution, Article VI, Clause 3: "...but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."
Leave the church out of baseball. FOTF & Dobson sure are some intolerant "Christians".
The Braves need to focus on making the playoffs & not trade A.Jones.
Standing up for what the Bible says and what you believe is morally wrong is "intolerant"? And who are you to say that? By the definition of intolerance, you're guilty of it as well.
Dictionary.com defines intolerant as:
"Unwilling to tolerate differences in opinions, practices, or beliefs, especially religious beliefs."
So if true Biblical Christians are "intolerant" because they speak out against homosexuality, along with murder (errr... abortion, excuse me), pornography, theft, blaspheme, adultery and fornication, then you're just as intolerant by what you're saying. I love it when people throw around the word "intolerant".
Your point of view can be tolerated. However, attempting to make that point of view an operating system which everyone -- no matter if they agree with it -- has to work under is not acceptable. You can speak all you want; making others abide by what you think is acceptable practice is not.
Well, unless it's your website.
(You see why I removed this conversation to here?)
And if forcing everyone else to abide by your rules -- like, say, the Taliban -- is part of your worldview, then that worldview is not compatible with a free society, and attempts to put it into practice must be resisted. If that's intolerance, too bad.
Focus on the Family actually promotes and sells a book by Ryan Dobson titled...wait for it...Be Intolerant.
So yes, I think they can safely be called intolerant. Are all faithful people like that? No, of course not.
It's too bad that I can't escape the religious proselytizing from christians who feel obligated to push their superstitious nonsense in my face if I choose not to believe the same way that they do. Symbols of people being crucified everywhere, flyers in my mail exhorting me to save myself (by giving them money - go figure!), door to door harrassment, etc. Praise Koresh that I only have to put up with a tiny bit of their superstitions, and I only have to carry a tiny constant reminder of their beliefs, when I want to use the currency of the land in my everyday life.
I guess that makes me less intolerant of their pagan occult rituals as they are of others' pornography. Which should be no problem, right rob?
But I can still boycott the Altanta Braves, the Boy Scouts, the Salvation Army, and any other organizations that use even a dime from christian organizations, because their constant intrusion into my life offends me even more than the potential of pornography in the world seems to offend them.
Plus: Oh my! The word verification I have been given to upload this comment contains the F word! I think we should boycott blogger because they could be making kids type nasty words on their PCs...
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